比加工中心快的diy数控铣

chibi

钻铣50改的。这是视频地址http://www.56.com/n_v140_/c41_/9_/13_/chibixjfen_/zhajm_123841733651_/107000_/0_/42235748.swf

hrcuan

速度不错F值是多少？

kanxiaohua

请问加工中心和数控铣有什么区别么 ？ 看起来一样啊

hl1200aa

【3楼】 kanxiaohua 小华
阿莫的那台杨铁，在一个月前叫做杨铁数控铣床，现在叫做杨铁加工中心。

zhuisuoji

仔细看看,好像是快进的效果.视屏是经过处理的,实际速度应该不是那样的

hrcuan

仔细看看,好像是快进的效果.视屏是经过处理的,实际速度应该不是那样的



应该不是快进的，看螺旋下刀好像不怎么快

kanxiaohua

我能不能这么理解 楼主去找个自动换刀系统 就成了加工中心了 ，铣床好像才1~2W  阿莫 能不能搞一个这个方案出来啊 把普通铣床变成加工中心啊 这样我们国家就不要花几十W去买普通的加工中心了 这也是一个很大的市场啊

chibi

呵呵，。。。有加工中心的可以去试试。看可以到这个速度吗。
视频经过处理？你帮我处理一下。谢谢。
实际的速度是怎样的？

chibi

我给你G代码。5米的加工速度。0.5的吃深。6的合金铣刀。我期待你的视频，
模拟不需要。做这个一个试验最多5分钟。模拟的那随便的国产数控铣都可以做到，我要看的是加工。
雕刻机可以做出来我倒是相信。。。但是绝不可能是你们做的雕刻机。

zhuisuoji

注:我不是说加工中心不能到达这种速度,而是他这个视屏有点让人怀疑.

机器速度快不等于整个镜头也要晃得厉害吧??

难道抓摄影机的人看到机器速度快也要跟着跳舞不成??

alibabaopen

假的就是假的，楼主的这视频一看就是假的，chibi搞个这假视频来的目的不是比技术，而是来踢馆的。
阿莫老大不要理睬这些无聊的人，他们看不得莫老大如此雄心勃勃地砸巨资真心做实业，他们没有能力就只会眼红吹牛皮。几十万的正宗品牌的商业机器，比不过他那个DIY的机器，谁信啊，真是这样的话，那些做加工中心的工厂早就倒闭了，chibi搞这个假视频来来只不过证明了其身上人问题。
莫老大不要理睬这些人，保持以往的冲劲，安心做好我们的机器，气死这些无聊的人。

还有八楼的，我严重怀疑你是不是知道什么是加工中心？加工中心有哪些东西，我以前不懂，莫老大介绍之后，我就明白了，你也应该跟着学习的，而不是随便出馊主意。

alibabaopen

我说chibi是来捣乱的，是因为他只说他的机器有多快，却无法证明他的机器的精度有多高。
没有精度的机器，就算是飞机的速度，又有什么用呢？搞这个视频，又想证明什么呢？

sunsetboy

铣刀抬起来，找到要下刀的位置，还没有下刀时，这时，刀应该是在一个位置上停止不动的。但录像中，却看到它好像是先绕动几个圈。。。
--------------------
晕!!!那下刀方案:螺旋下刀,常用于开粗!!嘻嘻!!阿莫外行吧!!你问下你那台加工中心的编程人员就知!!

kanxiaohua

to alibabaopen
还有八楼的，我严重怀疑你是不是知道什么是加工中心？加工中心有哪些东西，我以前不懂，莫老大介绍之后，我就明白了，你也应该跟着学习的，而不是随便出馊主意。
拜托哦  我什么时候说过我知道加工中心是啥样了 ，你居然还用的着怀疑，真是。。。。无语了,什么人啊   我对加工中心的认识 也是跟莫老大，在此之前 我和你一样 连真正的加工中心铣床长啥样都不知道 是一个真正的机加工盲 而且我出的也不是什么馊主意  ，连莫老大都说 加了个自动刀库 就是加工中心了  技术上是可行的  而成本核算上是不可行的  ，既然是成本问题 我想 集我们论坛的力量 和老大的雄厚经验群策群力 还是有希望能过做出来的，，
这里有两个可能
1.能做出来   那我们可以将所有的铣床都改成加工中心  我看到加工中心动辄3~4十万，便宜的也要2~3十W  而铣床只要1~2~3W  这个利润空间 和市场是非常巨大的,真做到了咱们坛子可真是中国加工中心的鼻祖了。。。哈哈哈哈  扯远了  反正前景光明.
2.不能做出来  也没什么毕竟什么都要先论证一下 不能做肯定有不能做的道理，而现在主要是成本问题 如果论证都通不过 就不要做下去了 不过论坛论坛 又论又谈 大家在这个问题上集思广益  说不定还能激发其他的灵感
基于上面的考虑 又何来馊主意之有,大家都是想要活跃坛子


PS: 小声的和莫老大交流一下:我刚刚想到的 那些2~30W的加工中心的刀库你应该可以去考察一下 机器都卖2~30W 刀库不会是太贵,如果是便宜的刀库 那是否可以移植到铣床上呢 毕竟整个价值里面 铣床 才1~2~3W  相当于零头了  这样做出来的话还是有竞争力啊,

sunsetboy

看不过去了!!大家看上面几位说什么!!
人家楼主只是说:"比加工中心快的diy数控铣"注意人家只是比加工中心快(也有可能是个比喻,来证明自己DIY的JJ快!!)!不是比加工中心快精度高!!!还有人家只是自己DIY!!DIY!!
不要用楼主的JJ和大厂正规加工中心比精度!!!!好不??这样比你们不认为好笑吗?
阿莫不是说欢迎DIY高手介绍自己的JJ吗?
现在人家来了又说什么"踢馆""假视频"!!说真得精度和刚性只是选好的材料就OK!只重点在于软件!!软件!!!懂不??
我十分支持!!楼主!!支持你!!!


不想多说了!!大家想想吧!!!

hl1200aa

工业使用的机器，稳定压倒一切，如果机器不和谐的话，性能再高也没用！

sunsetboy

我急??
我现在什么也不想说!!
现在清明回老家拜祭祖先!!

cbcb128

编程是有技巧的

gzhuli

这个速度，不会用的是直线电机吧？

hsztc

我觉得视频没什么问题，可能是参照物没选好，感觉像假的，我特别看了下机器不会动的地方，摄像机拿的还算稳。因为机器的上下两部分都在动，所以看的时候不能以会动的地方做参照物。就是开车一样，如果两辆车停在一起，你的参照物是另一辆车的话，那辆车刚好向前开，你会觉得你的车是在往后退。

myjnj

这个贴子我要跟了，我99年开始做日本加工中心的维修，当时算国内最早作这行的了，杨铁的不算好，但也算是个加工中心了，床身应该是整体铸件的，刚性和吸振性能不是DIY的可比的，加工中心不管有没有刀库，能够3轴联动就可以算了，没有Z轴的只能叫铣床，多年没碰数控行业，这些规矩应该没变吧

myjnj

大家都在进步的,扬铁的在浙江的好多模具厂在使用,说明还是经得起考验的,我以前的一些同事好象在南京代理扬铁的,不过代理商比较黑,
我记得当时日本的40x50cm 工作台的,带个刀库要100万出头,这还是报价7折后的价格,其实可以做到5折,刀具可以做到3折,所以是暴利行业,老故事了,不了解现在的行情.

chibi

说到精度。那我承认没有加工中心的高。但是定位精度是0.02，重复定位精度是0.01.但是不管是什么床，。要真正会玩的人来操作。那样精度才有保证。首先我要强调的是我不是搞摄影的，也不是摄像师。用的照相机拍的视频。（照相机是卡西欧的400万像素的老机器了）如果阿莫有兴趣欢迎你来帮我拍拍。我知道你是此中高手。
录像的真伪我没有必要解释。因为那个造假没有一点意义。一。我不卖床。二。我也不准备造这样的床来卖。三。就算是我要卖我也要等机器真正运行成熟了我才会考虑。
说到踢馆！我更没有必要解释了。随便怎么想。只是看了这里的加工中心的加工录像。感觉要走的路还很长。2D加工是最简单的了。
关于杨铁。。。我不做评论、只是说在台湾的机器里算是二三线的机器、不管什么机器。只要自己认为好那就好就行了。就像是自己的孩子。怎么看都比别人的孩子好。所以我感觉我自己做的那床比加工中心好。
还有就是。不管什么床。要想改好是需要功夫的。这台床的改造我再别的几个地方都有贴。有兴趣的可以去看看。
既然是造假的视频。那肯定没有G代码了。。。

chibi

还有回复一下阿莫、、、我的这台机器的总造价是不到1万元。。。。。
至于十三四楼的回复。。。与其于无知的人较真。不如闭嘴。我闭嘴、。闭嘴之前先告诉你们。我再04年就买了加工中心。。并且是原装进口的台湾货。并且是四轴的。

hefq

感觉视频是真实的
因为声音与动作同步的同时却没有失真

flash6

踢什么馆啊，大家共同切搓一下不好吗？真是的。

chibi

已经上传。。。程序头和尾需要修改，因为不知道你们的床的系统，所以自己修改吧，最好找个懂行的改程序头。每次的吃刀0.5，和我用的参数是一样的，

hl1200aa

【36楼】 armok 阿莫
复杂的G代码最好不要用D版的powermill生成，说不定哪天刀柄飞出来都有可能。

chibi

问一下你。。国内有几个在用正版的？你知道正版的价格吗？你见过有谁的刀柄飞的吗？就算是飞是软件的事情吗？
告诉你吧。。国内的中小型企业，。我敢说98%的都再用D板。刀柄飞一般都是拉钉惹的祸。和编程没关系。除非是故意，。就算是大型企业。也绝大多数再用D版的。
一套进口的cam软件动辄就比一台加工中心还要贵。。。。。
试问一下你。。。你的xp是正版的吗？

chibi

txt文件、。要是贴再这里这个贴就是水贴了。拉的太长。
用的是両刃的铣刀。合金的。
也就是说G0速度是8米？我的床的G0可以到15米。现在减半使用。7.5米。

chibi

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N2714 G2 X70.164 Y42.969 R3.
N2716 G3 Y96.969 R27.
N2718 X43.164 Y69.969 R27.
N2720 G2 X40.164 Y66.969 R3.
N2722 G1 X-40.164
N2724 G2 X-43.164 Y69.969 R3.
N2726 G0 Z10.
N2728 M5
N2730 G91 G28 Z0.
N2732 G28 X0. Y0.
N2734 M30
%

chibi

运行时间是7分钟左右吧。深度是2毫米。6个的铣刀、

Tomcat

楼主的机器确实比较猛，不知道主轴转速是多少？

kanxiaohua

LZ说总价不到1W元!!!!  阿莫老大 应该可以考虑这个了  毕竟用4十几万的机器比几千元的机器 没有意义  但是我觉得里面的价值空间 有极大的意义 咱们想办法把16W的刀库搞定  就能在国内大量推便宜的加工中心了

zhuisuoji

【楼主位】 chibi
...
至于十三四楼的回复。。。与其于无知的人较真。不如闭嘴。
...
------------------------------------------------------
    如果视屏是真的楼主也不必过于激动,我也只是说有点让人怀疑而已.真金不怕火炼,是真的就是真,我也不会硬说是假的,对吧?既然

你拿到论坛上来发表,那么总是会有网友拿来进行讨论的,有讨论就会有不同的声音,有高手发表的,当然也会有像你说的"无知的人发表

的",好!你是高手,对于无知的人你可以不必理会,但是总不置于叫他"闭嘴"吧??技术论坛的宗旨是从无知变成已知,相互之间交流,相信

大家也都是在想从无知变成已知吧?

最后我这个无知的人希望这个论坛高手们不要太过保守,对于无知的人提出的疑问还请多多赐教,谢谢~~~~

rifjft

拍点雕刻机生产的过程更好玩

hool

无知的人总喜欢说无知的话。
高速加工都不懂还说懂加工中心，现在加工中心都配2个主轴知道吧。
为什么要配2个？
CHIBI这个主轴是18000转的。知道了吧。
先把加工中心概念搞清楚再说。有的同志一看加工的快了就赶紧喊没精度，高速加工45000转以上就不用表面处理了。

hl1200aa

【51楼】 hool  
CHIBI这个主轴是18000转的

多少KW的啊？直流电还是异步的？稳定性怎么样？多少米？
看着都有点流口水了，那种感觉跟罗德斯锣铜工有点像。

tt3009

一万元绝对可以搞出精度不错的数控铣了！一个全新的钻铣才多少钱？装几个扭矩大的步进电机就可以了。而且成熟工业机床的成本是很低的，而且精度并不差！人家有专门的生产制造工艺！

机械制造值钱的就是工艺了！企业想生存发展就要在工艺上搞创新！

一枚钉子，让人diy那要多少成本啊？但是制钉机制造出来的钉子，加工成本简直可以忽略！这才给我们带来了大量的便宜好用的钉子！

别小看那些钉子螺栓绣花针轴承等标准件，他们的生产工艺都是人类智慧的结晶！

rabbiter99

实在看不下去了：
一个是DIY 二手机床的高手
一个是挥金如土 的金主
本来两者追求的就不是同一个目标，有什么可比的啊。

就象一个改装的公路赛旧摩托和一两崭新的奥迪，非得拉在一起比什么越野速度，结果是显而易见的，有什么意义？

tt3009

不抬杠！

轴承很便宜，精度也很高！精度的高低不是看价钱的！而是市场的成熟度！市场上量大的产品，价格都会很低！为了盈利，就会有降低成本的新工艺产生！

精度是一个很虚无的概念，适用就好！极端的追求是不理智的！

吉利汽车的变速箱车间的加工精度是全球汽车厂最高的，但是吉利的变速箱就需要努力的太多了！他们兼并澳大利亚的变速器公司，也就是冲着人家的工艺去的！

阿莫的机器精度已经够用了，你要提高的就是可靠性和耐用度，然后就是摧垮对手的价格优势！完美的东西人人都很向往，但是绝大多数成功的都是能被市场迅速接受的实用型产品。

tt3009

一个小建议！

阿莫最好赶紧找一个专业的工业设计公司合作，或者招两个搞工业设计的，好的产品外形是很重要的！现在的JJ的外形还是停留在初步阶段！没有给人明确的心理暗示。

tt3009

工业产品的工业设计运用的好的代表就是意大利和韩国！

意大利靠着区别对手的工业设计，让很多小企业具有抗衡欧美大鳄的能力！而韩国靠着工业设计引发了制造业的迅速提升！

我们的JJ如果能聘用好的人员搞一下“包装”，那么前景是可以期待的！

qtmdd

题目本身立意不算高,但后面有许多衍生的东西确实值得大家思考.
对精度,对加工效率,对市场等的理解和思考.
谢谢吃比.

guest01

5米/每分的速度一点也不奇怪，15米/每分的DIY机我也看过，但只是空刀走，而且震动比较大，机架有点吃不消，还有因为驱动没有半流设置，时间长的话步进的温度有点高，用了几天后就放弃了，改用另一驱动。速度可以到8—10米/分钟，平时用的时候会根据材料、刀具等选择相应的速度，一般的切削速度为3—5米/每分钟，抬刀、空走的速度设高一点以节省时间，兼顾速度和精度。

至于很多人讲LZ的视频晃动历害，我也仔细看了，确实有点晃动，明显看出是手持拍摄，所以并不奇怪。其实看上去晃动比较大的主要原因是LZ机器结构跟论坛上的机器不同，LZ的机器Z轴不是装在移动轴上，而且上下的动作相对不明显，这无形中给不停运动的X、Y轴提供了一个参照物，让人感觉晃动很历害，其实是X、Y轴在运动，Z轴并没有左右移动。大家重新看一遍，盯住Z轴看，用余光看X、Y轴就明白了。

guest01

我也来段视频，和LZ的速度比较比较^_^

http://www.nansha-port.com/webdisk/mypane.aspx?down=ok&filename=J3030F.wmv&filepath=rvworks%2fmovie%2fJ3030F.wmv

hool

63楼，我不是抬杠啊。
你这个切得是XPS泡沫，或叫代木。不是金属，和CHIBI的没有可比。
看看真正国外高速加工吧
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsYz5pccAvg
如看不了，看这个
http://www.datrondynamics.com

注意，那把刀，特制的，快的可怕。这段录像在CDLE上讨论过。

CHIBI能够把普通50床通过尽量的合理化配比来完成近似于高速加工的实验，是让人佩服的。如果能换上更好的刀与主轴我想还能再快。

shyany

这样的讨论很有意义，能让人深思。

guest01

To 65楼：
我的意思是比较比较就容易看出，5米的速度对DIY者来说，不是什么难事，只是帖子里很多人没看到过，加上感觉好像很晃，所以有疑问，我这个视频感觉没那么晃，看的清楚一些，通过比较，比较让人容易得出LZ的视频应该不是修改过的，那个速度就有那么快的。

chibi说他那个床速度能上15米，估计很多人都认为是天方夜谈，因为5米就已经很多人不相信了，但我信，因为我见过类似的机器，也能上15米（别较真，也就是是测试能上而已，并不是工作速度。）。相信如果机架够重、够结实（我看那台机2个人已经抬不动了，可还是不够重），换上高速、大功率主轴，采用好的刀具...用15米来工作至少10米左右应该是可以实现的。